Taming Tormato?

[inelegy]

Well, things have once again fallen rather quiet around here. Unsurprisingly, "Heaven & Earth" certainly didn't move the needle much, did it? A (not) surprising outcome . . .

Though I've not heard all possible issues and re-issues of "Tormato" I can say that I have yet to hear one that satisfies my ears. Beyond the flaws in the writing and arranging, the generally shrill, overly bright sound -- much of it supposedly brought on by the band not properly processing Dolby A during the mixdown after firing Eddie Offord -- is something I can try to fix.

Here:

https://mega.co.nz/#!mVFC2C7K!X74cJGftseoC6vBvc1fT2YmbzZxSeDY_nbGyPoiP2LU

is my attempt to 'warm up' "Tormato". Source materials were 24bit/192kHz tracks purchased from hdtracks.com.

Basically, I applied EQ along with some compression and limiting. Noise reduction was also used. My aim was to tame the shrill mids and highs, add more weight to the bottom, and give the whole thing more pop. The NR choice was a tough one, but doing so helped to make it more tight sounding and less thin and inconsequential.

One of the side effects is that this work downplays some of Howe's and Wakeman's overplaying. Plus, Wakeman's terrible Polymoog patches seem a bit easier to stomach with their grating highs smoothed over.

For my money, the "main" pieces ("Future Times", "Release, Release", "Arriving UFO", OTSWOF) benefit most because they appear to suffer the most from the Dolby encoding issue and the overplaying by H&W. Additionally, "Don't Kill The Whale" seems to stomp around the room in a way it has never before. My experimenting is perhaps not as successful on the remaining tracks.

If nothing else here's an opportunity to enjoy an old Yes album with new ears. I've been living with it for a few weeks and am satisfied with these adjustments. As always, YMMV.

[y***@hotmail.com]

The link is asking me to install some sort of program in order to access the file(s), which I'm not about to do.
I can mess about with the various utilities in my home studio to improve/change the sound (and have done, actually), but really the only thing that's going to make any sort of real difference is to remix right from the studio masters, track by track. One way to address the very real issue of Howe & Wakeman overplaying I think would be to separate them as much as possible in the stereo spectrum, which can't really be done properly without access to the original masters. Howe has indicated he doesn't believe much can be done with Tormato, so a Steven Wilson remix doesn't seem to be in the cards, but I wish it was, Howe may not think much of it but I've always been very fond of this album, and the work done by Wilson so far has been excellent imo.

--

Paul

[inelegy]

Post by y***@hotmail.com
The link is asking me to install some sort of program in order to access the file(s), which I'm not about to do.

For the less easily frightened, mega.co.nz is an established and safe cloud service and isn't going to hurt your device. I don't post dangerous links.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mega_%28service%29

[y***@hotmail.com]

Lol, I'm certainly not *frightened*, I just access the net on a tablet these days, and I have very limited space left for many more apps.

--

Paul

[p***@msn.com]

Post by y***@hotmail.com
The link is asking me to install some sort of program in order to access the file(s), which I'm not about to do.
I can mess about with the various utilities in my home studio to improve/change the sound (and have done, actually), but really the only thing that's going to make any sort of real difference is to remix right from the studio masters, track by track. One way to address the very real issue of Howe & Wakeman overplaying I think would be to separate them as much as possible in the stereo spectrum, which can't really be done properly without access to the original masters. Howe has indicated he doesn't believe much can be done with Tormato, so a Steven Wilson remix doesn't seem to be in the cards, but I wish it was, Howe may not think much of it but I've always been very fond of this album, and the work done by Wilson so far has been excellent imo.

Me too, fond of this album. There was some really solid raw material, perhaps with the exception of Circus of Heaven (IMHO). And the mix and production did not serve the material well. And the boys were about to break up and drifting in different directions musically. That tension did not serve them well here either. But a remix like you are describing would be fascinating.

Jim

Post by y***@hotmail.com
Paul

[Stephen Shores]

Post by p***@msn.com
Me too, fond of this album. There was some really solid raw material, perhaps with the exception of Circus of Heaven (IMHO).
Jim

Honestly, I feel a sense of embarrassment every time I hear this track, especially when the kid chimes in. (side thought: a lot of kids and adults would think a circus with no clowns a good thing...)

'Arriving UFO' does the same thing for me, positively cringeworthy. :)

And 'Don't Kill The Whale', I used to hate that song but it's grown on me. The music video is hilariously bad.

[p***@msn.com]

Post by Stephen Shores

Post by p***@msn.com
Me too, fond of this album. There was some really solid raw material, perhaps with the exception of Circus of Heaven (IMHO).
Jim

Honestly, I feel a sense of embarrassment every time I hear this track, especially when the kid chimes in. (side thought: a lot of kids and adults would think a circus with no clowns a good thing...)

Yup, they did this one live "In the Round" and well, the audience was puzzled at best. ;-)

Post by Stephen Shores
'Arriving UFO' does the same thing for me, positively cringeworthy. :)

Not quite as cringe worthy but a difficult tune at best...

Post by Stephen Shores
And 'Don't Kill The Whale', I used to hate that song but it's grown on me. The music video is hilariously bad.

They did this, I believe it was the 2004 tour, 35th anniversary tour maybe? I saw this in Denver, and DKtW simply rocked. Gained a new affection for the tune.

Much like Onward done live in the San Luis Obispo sessions, comes across much stronger than on the album. So if they'd worked more on this material, had a good producer, I think it could have been a rather good CD. Still fond of it and find it to be like The Ladder and Magnification, moments of YES glory, moments of muddled YES that's still good to listen, and then an occasional, YES WTF moment.

Jim

[Stephen Shores]

Post by inelegy
Well, things have once again fallen rather quiet around here. Unsurprisingly, "Heaven & Earth" certainly didn't move the needle much, did it? A (not) surprising outcome . . .

Yeah, not much there to stir the passions, unfortunately. Even 'Union' does more for me. :)

Post by inelegy
Though I've not heard all possible issues and re-issues of "Tormato" I can say that I have yet to hear one that satisfies my ears. Beyond the flaws in the writing and arranging, the generally shrill, overly bright sound -- much of it supposedly brought on by the band not properly processing Dolby A during the mixdown after firing Eddie Offord -- is something I can try to fix.

I'm honestly not much of a sound guy--I know what sounds good/bad/better/worse, but I can't reach into a recording or a live show and say, 'this is exactly what is wrong, this is what needs to be fixed'. I am very much looking forward to hearing this, though!

[Stephen Shores]

Post by inelegy
If nothing else here's an opportunity to enjoy an old Yes album with new ears. I've been living with it for a few weeks and am satisfied with these adjustments. As always, YMMV.

Wow. You know, in general, most times I see a 'remastered' sticker on an album, I almost have to just take their word for it, but here...wow. I've just listened to the first two tracks so far, but the improvement to the low-end is quite noticeable. It's not overbearing, just a nice 'oomph' in there, and...wait, Chris Squire is actually on this? I'm being facetious, but really, this is the first time I've noticed his bass line so distinctly. I switched over to the last Deluxe Edition to confirm what I was hearing, and it was so hissy and tinny in comparison that it was difficult to listen to--lots and lots of highs, and that's about it.

Very good improvement. I'm sticking this in my playlist as a replacement for the official. Thank you.

[inelegy]

Post by Stephen Shores

Post by inelegy
If nothing else here's an opportunity to enjoy an old Yes album with new ears. I've been living with it for a few weeks and am satisfied with these adjustments. As always, YMMV.

Wow. You know, in general, most times I see a 'remastered' sticker on an album, I almost have to just take their word for it, but here...wow. I've just listened to the first two tracks so far, but the improvement to the low-end is quite noticeable. It's not overbearing, just a nice 'oomph' in there, and...wait, Chris Squire is actually on this? I'm being facetious, but really, this is the first time I've noticed his bass line so distinctly. I switched over to the last Deluxe Edition to confirm what I was hearing, and it was so hissy and tinny in comparison that it was difficult to listen to--lots and lots of highs, and that's about it.
Very good improvement. I'm sticking this in my playlist as a replacement for the official. Thank you.

I'm glad someone gave my quasi-remaster a shot (finally) and glad that they enjoyed it. Thanks for listening; I was about to clear it off of my cloud space.

The songwriting is never going to be there for this album, and I'd love for Steven Wilson (or someone else with equally good ears and instincts) to take a stab at fixing the disastrous mix on _Tormato_, but barring that this tweak of mine serves as the only 'fix' we're likely to see until a professional sits down, rolls up his sleeves, and tries his hand at improving the situation.

[Stephen Shores]

Post by inelegy
The songwriting is never going to be there for this album, and I'd love for Steven Wilson (or someone else with equally good ears and instincts) to take a stab at fixing the disastrous mix on _Tormato_, but barring that this tweak of mine serves as the only 'fix' we're likely to see until a professional sits down, rolls up his sleeves, and tries his hand at improving the situation.

So I'm assuming that the '2013 remaster' really wasn't?

[inelegy]

Post by Stephen Shores
So I'm assuming that the '2013 remaster' really wasn't?

To my ears, no one has yet taken any drastic steps towards properly improving this album's sound. I'll confess that I've likely not heard every reissue/remaster that's come down from Yes LLC. Frankly, I'm tired of waiting and spending money on disappointments and busily tracking down an expensive Japan-only SACD remaster with specific matrix numbers after hours of researching stevehoffman.tv forums digging for an well-reasoned, balanced, and informed opinion.

Fuck that -- it should be this difficult. I took matters into my own hands using the highest resolution sources I could buy and am reasonably happy with my results.

At this point, unless Wilson does some King Crimson _Lizard_-level magic on _Tormato_, this will serve me as my de-facto definitive version.